Partial transcript of Lindsay Shepherd interview – Dr Herbert Pimlott

In the course of trying to write an article about the Lindsay Shepherd affair I found that it was close to impossible to quote anything Dr Herbert Pimlott said when he was trying to justify not teaching both sides of a debate.

I ended up having to transcribe one of his speeches – which is below. Please bear in mind that this person is supposed to be an Associate Professor of Communications Studies.

We all use a lot of ums and hesitate in other ways when talking naturally, so of course I’m not using this against him, but the rambling disorganisation and lack of focus on the topic at hand is breathtaking – not to mention his obvious political bias. If anyone can explain how this is relevant to transgender pronouns please pop your answer on the back of a postcard.

Hats off to Ms Shepherd for managing not to interrupt.

He makes another similar speech before this – if anyone has the strength / time to transcribe I’ll happily add the text here.

 

Please do NOT attempt to contact or harass any of the people on the tape or staff / students at Wilfrid Laurier University.

 

Um one of, well one of, yeah one of the things I mean um again I, I, what I see is I I have n-not a problem with the idea of debate at any point. What concerns me with what I know of having… been here now 16 years um, is… uh, and I don’t know the first years have changed and they (this is a first year class, right?) yes 101. Um, but what I have found is that, um one of the things is a, a notion of confirmation bias, uh, you’ve heard that phrase? [Shepherd: Uhuh]. Cos you did comms studies at SFU. But one of the things is that a lot of the students that are coming in already hold very strong, you know, very strong opinions. Um, whether or not these are opinions backed up with evidence… And my concern…if, if, if, you know for, again, I’m just adopting the, a schol… position of a scholar in, in the situation here is to say well we have these students that come in… they have very strong uh in my experience they’ve always have, and I’m teaching them in second year even, they, they have very strong opinions about x, y and z which is… you know that’s fine, but if they’re going to be challenged about those opinions it’s a much… um… it’s a much… um… greater deal to do that…it’s… the… like, like the world that Jordan Peterson, Ezra Levant, Rebel, Media and… and that have constructed I find quite… in, in, you, am, am, am, quite… ahh ahh… amusing in a way, or bemusing, because it’s almost like… the left has won and controls everything and you’re going to be imprisoned if you, you know you don’t adopt cultural Marxist / politically correct, the new term cultural Marxism… I mean I find it practically ludicrous that this is the case given the political economic realities in Canada, Ontario, Kitchen Waterloo, this institution, precarious work etc… so I just find it ludicrous that um, people like Ezra Levant and Jordan Peterson believe that, I mean I, maybe they believe in those black helicopters that the conspiracy theorists in the States used to talk about coming to control world government, ok. That to me is where a lot of that sort of thinking goes. I do know that there’s people that bring in those ideas in the classes I teach. I don’t feel that I’m doing my duty to challenge these already established ideas if what I present in my, in the courses I teach and also in terms of the curriculum that communications studies as a field as an interdiscipline of many disciplines, um I don’t feel I’m teaching critical engagement in a world where all the established dominant institutions in society reinforce a number of different types of privileges, perspectives and prejudices, um, where the university is one of the few spaces where we can actually take people, engage them, challenge them… um It’s not um, you know challenging the faith-based, or uh family and other types of structures in society that they’ve been inculcated with for years and years in three hours or one hour or 50 minutes you know in some whys isn’t going to be much of a challenge, but if in an institution which prides itself on getting to grips and having peer reviewed academically socially scientifically you know evidence based research, is going to work to confirm the kind of biases that are based on… stuff that it cannot be substantiated in an academic critical way I find that problematic. And I don’t feel were doing our job as an institution simply from because we’re presenting both sides, and again I use the analogy of climate change. I, I mean the fossil fuel industry itself knew this in the 1970s, it’s like the tobacco companies with lung cancer, as early as the late 1920s they had a really strong idea that this was happening and further and further research showed that. I would find it problematic given the degree of advertising and power that the Canadian Association for Petroleum Producers, the big tobacco lobby, big pharma etc have through advertising, through the media that you’ve studied at SFU, you’re part of the learning process for students to just reinforce the kind of prejudices that students bring to class. That to me is something, yes we need to challenge them, and we need to challenge them, and I challenge them with ideas that I don’t even necessarily believe in, in 203. But because they’re substantiated and my colleagues require me to teach them to prepare students better for their third and fourth year I am happy to teach those things. I know it’ll, uh I hope it’ll make every student but maybe some rethink what they think. If they come around to believe – you know they can believe what they say they can say what they believe, right. You’re, everyone’s entitled to their opinions, but we have a duty as educators, as scholars, as academics, even as public intellectuals to make sure that we’re not furthering the kind of… um… I would call it charlatanism..? I think Jordan Peterson particularly – you know and I know you’re not a fan – but I think he actually shows a form of charlatanism, um when it comes to the academy, and he’s playing this whole idea about free speech and of public debate which is not substantiated by the fact that he has nothing really that is credible in terms of the research, including his, his stuff on pronouns. And, I, and that for me, that’s where I find people like Jordan Peterson problematic, is because… uh I don’t find anything credible in his academic research to be that.

Yeah.

I mean, there, there are other people who teach grammar that could be drawn upon to perhaps challenge this idea of the idea of using ‘they’ around the notion of when you use it, but again I would say that that’s you know it, it struck me… it strikes me as a little bit different bringing in a debate on a YouTube video about something when we’re teaching grammar and talking about pronouns.

 

At this point, mercifully, Professor Rambukkana cuts in and puts us all (and presumably Lindsay at the time) out of our misery.

 

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The ASA’s reply to my complaint about their Gender Stereotyping Debate

Back in September I sent a complaint (which can be read here) to the Advertising Standards Agency about their disturbing, intellectually dishonest and very poorly referenced report on Gender Stereotypes.

Below is their reply. Prepare for your palm to hit your face. Note the astonishing weaselry with regard to the website mra-uk.

My complaint pointed out that there is a plethora of evidence against the gender neutral argument, and I assume the phrase ‘I’m sorry you feel that some points were missed’ is supposed to cover this, while the phrase ‘conclusions reached by the report reflect the general body of evidence which tells us that achieving greater gender equality is desirable for many reasons’ neatly side steps the issue.

And, of course, they fall back on ‘preventing any potential for harm’ as an excuse without engaging in any debate over who has the right to determine the definition of ‘harm’.

What a surprise.

——————————————

Thank you for getting in touch about your concerns, in particular for drawing our attention to dead links in the report – we are in the process of identifying & rectifying those links so should have that fixed soon.

On your other specific issue about the MRA-UK website, the assertions you are concerned about are not directly linked to that website, rather a general summary of the content we had seen on that and similar sites.

In relation to your additional concerns, I’m sorry you feel that some points were missed or misrepresented.  Clearly this is a sensitive and often provocative topic about which there are a range of views, which we have tried to reflect in the report.

The conclusions reached by the report reflect the general body of evidence which tells us that achieving greater gender equality is desirable for many reasons, and that reinforcing stereotypes wherever they appear can hinder that pursuit.  Clearly advertising is not the only influence in reinforcing stereotypes, but it is right that we act to prevent any potential for harm.

The ASA will reflect the learnings of the report in a way that is proportionate and reflective of the evidence base, taking into account as it always does, the need to balance commercial freedom of speech with our objective to protect consumers from ads that harm, mislead or offend.

Regards

 

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How to complain about the Advertising Standards Agency’s Report on Gender Stereotypes in Advertising

So this happened a while ago, but the UK ASA decided to put together a whole load of ideological rubbish to pave the way for changing guidelines / legislation on what does and does not constitute sexist advertising (probably because they were sore about not being able to rule against the Protein World ‘beach body ready’ campaign, but want to make sure that they can next time something like that comes around).
Jordan at thescreen.me has taken the time to put together an in-depth look at the weaknesses of the report, which you can read here.
If you are as concerned as I am about the clear ideological bias and agenda of the new guidelines you can complain to the ASA by emailing enquiries@asa.org.uk. Of course, please be very polite!
Here is the text of the complaint I have just sent them, feel free to use as a template:
Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to express my concern about ideological bias in your Report on Gender Stereotypes in Advertising.

The report has clearly been compiled from a standpoint of bias in favour of gender neutralist ideologies, taking the assumption that steps should be taken to bring about equal outcomes for different groups of people for granted. It also ignores a plethora of evidence based in hard (rather than social) science. For example, the work of Cordelia Fine is cited, while the work of academics such as Simon Baron-Cohen and Steven Pinker is not mentioned at all.

I would also like to point out that many of the sources that might indicate a different assessment of gender equality are handled highly disingenuously. The report presents those who may disagree with the gender neutralist argument as arguing ‘in favour of gender stereotypes or inequalities’. A rather underhand phrase which seems to be designed to side step the idea that factors other than discrimination may lie behind differences in outcomes for men and women, as well as keeping the distinction between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome conveniently out of readers’ minds – not to mention the question of how far public institutions ought to be making it their business to bring about equal outcomes.

Further dishonest (and frankly erroneous) handling of sources can be found on p. 23 where the claim is made that the website mrauk.co.uk asserts that ‘the gender pay gap has been closed‘. The website does no such thing, and in fact presents detailed statistical analysis explaining that the 18% pay gap is a highly misleading statistic, representing average earnings only, and that the statement that women are paid less than men for the same work is not true when like for like factors are controlled for. In addition the website draws attention to the fact that national data illustrates that women under 35 now out earn men. The link provided in support of the assertion that these claims ‘are not supported by evidence’ simply links to a gov.uk page citing explanations for the gap in median earnings – the very same statistics mrauk looks at in great depth.
The report also states that the website claims ‘women are over represented in
science, technology, engineering and mathematics fields’. Again, this is an outright falsehood. The site presents detailed evidence that when medical sciences are included (making it STEMM rather than STEM) the statement that women are overrepresented within those fields is also factually correct. The compiler(s) of the report are clearly guilty of either gross intellectual laziness or gross intellectual dishonesty – potentially both. The link provided as proof that the claim is ‘not supported by evidence’ is dead, and also appears to be to an online magazine article rather than any academic material.
Following on from this, the report as a whole is very poorly referenced, with many links being dead or not addressing the point that is being made.
Using ideological logic (i.e. that being exposed to content that does not fit in with an idealised vision of how society should be can ‘potentially cause harm’) to control what the British public can and cannot see is deeply troubling. Exercising top-down control in this way to bring about sameness between different groups of people is frankly Orwellian and something I personally find highly disturbing.
The idea that advertisements should promote life as it ‘ought’ to be (or rather as one group of people think it ought to be) is an assault on freedom of expression and creativity and crosses the line into propaganda.
As a woman from an ethnic minority background I refuse to be used as a shield for these endeavours and feel it is my duty to speak out against them.
Yours Faithfully
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Here‘s my latest article for The Backbencher: Corbynmania at Glastonbury: Why Drugs are Bad:

http://thebackbencher.co.uk/corbynmania-at-glastonbury-why-drugs-are-bad/

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Being Targeted by Hope Not Hate

It’s been five years since I started this blog – anonymously at first because I was warned about how people with views like mine are targeted and harassed.

I’ve been very careful with what I say online so haven’t had any problems until now, but since giving up my anonymity to become part of a group of like minded UK women (The Liberty Belles) someone has clearly decided that it’s time make sure we are silenced before the public has a chance to hear what we actually think.

It seems that the attention of the radical left was called to us after we started a group called Ladies for Philip Davies, in support of the only MP in parliament willing to stand up against radical feminist ideology and policy. It is clear that for him to be publicly supported by women is something that leftist ideologues must avoid at all costs.

The organisation Hope Not Hate has targeted us with an incredibly dishonest and malicious article which can be read here in which we are branded ‘far-right extremists’ without one single example of our views being put forward as evidence for this.

Of course, we understand that it is standard procedure for the social justice left to accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part of the far right, however this article is simply so bizarrely unfounded and unfocused that it can be used as an example of just how low they have to sink when they have no arguments whatsoever to put forward against our actual opinions.

We also discuss the article in this live stream.

The following is our message to David Lawrence, the ‘researcher’ who put the piece together.

I hope his reply will illustrate how interested he is in truth, reason, openness and respecting women:

Dear Mr Lawrence,

Firstly we would like express our disappointment that your research clearly focused on ways to create our guilt by association rather than taking an interest in the nature of our opinions. We also feel that you made certain to contact us in such a way that we had little or no chance to respond to your allegations. It is our hope that this was a mistake and that you will be willing to withdraw your article or at least amend some of its more scurrilous statements. We are sure you would never want to mislead your readers or cause women to fear for their safety, which has been an unfortunate consequence of your work, as we explain below.

Regarding accusations of racism – these are especially spurious given the fact that one of our founders (Natoya) is mixed race and another (Catherine) has an ethnic minority background.

We set up Ladies for Philip Davies in support of Davies’ attempts to challenge radical feminist policies in UK parliament, policies which we believe do little to help women and waste precious time and resources. We notice that you also did not include a link to our interview with Davies. We hope that this was not because, had they watched it, your readers would have been left to judge for themselves where we stand on the political spectrum and would have realised that we do not hold any remotely extremist views. If you choose to leave the article online, we request that you give your readers the chance to make their own choice by linking to our video.

The accusation that we hold “extreme right-wing views” is not supported by any evidence in your article. None of us hold any. We as a group came together to discuss our issues with feminism and why we do not believe it works towards genuine equality. As such we have spent little or no time discussing far right ideologies. If you had bothered to read any of our personal blog posts you would have been able to confirm this. We would be very disappointed if you are aware of our work, but do not wish to draw your readers’ attention to it because it does not support any of the allegations you make in your piece. If you do not have time to read any of our writing, perhaps you could include some links so your readers can judge for themselves? We would also like to point out that several of us identify as non-feminist rather than anti-feminist, as you claim. Given that you did not make the effort to clarify this, we would also like to give you the opportunity to clarify this information for your readers.

The statement that some of us are involved in the Men’s Rights community is true. However as people are increasingly beginning to realise – particularly since The Red Pill documentary – the objectives and opinions of the Men’s Rights community have nothing to do with the far right.

Most of us identify as libertarians and classical liberals, while one of us defines herself as socially conservative. No amount of research and digging on us will ever suggest otherwise. We have no links with The National London Forum beyond one of our number speaking there on a platform about male genital mutilation. If you had approached Elizabeth for comment she would have explained that she was not aware of their true ideological bent, and that had she known of any links with the anti-Semite David Irving, or any bigot, she would not have accepted the offer. In fact several other members of the group had never heard of The London Forum until your article came out.

Perhaps the most deliberately underhand tactic you appear to have used is to list extreme right wing figures who have given THA talks, without mentioning that they host talks on a number of unusual and extreme topics, including speeches by radical leftist thinkers such as (in April of this year) Russ James of the Socialist Workers’ Party England, which is currently urging its supporters to vote for Jeremy Corbyn. We are sure you will agree that this kind of omission does a terrible disservice to your readers and is something you will wish to correct as a matter of urgency. If not, may we enquire whether you will be writing an article accusing the SWP of having links to right wing extremism?

We are five ordinary women not professional speakers with advisors and agents. Natoya Kadifa, a trained journalist, met with Claire Khaw personally to find out who the person behind the extreme online persona was and found a timid keyboard warrior. We find her opinions repugnant and have refused to share a platform with her in the past; she has subsequently harassed our group so much that most of us have had to block her on social media. Again, you would have learnt this if you had made any genuine attempt to ask if we had any connection to her. We find it particularly bizarre that you were able to take the time to connect with Khaw (which, we understand, is how you were able to learn that Natoya had attended her talk) and yet made zero attempt to contact any of us as individuals in good time before the piece, rather sending a single email to our group email address 24 hours before going to press. We would like to point out that it is very easy to contact us via the info we have in our public Twitter profiles. We do hope you will agree that your readership deserves a much higher and more rational standard of journalistic investigation.

We have nothing to hide, and had you contacted us we would willingly have discussed our passion for true egalitarian values. To be as clear as possible, the values we stand for are:

Democracy

Classical liberalism

Free speech

Civil rights

Equality before the law

Small government

These are all antidotes to far right and far left authoritarianism.

Finally and most importantly, some of us now have genuine fear for our own safety and the safety of our families, given that the website you write for appears to have links with Antifa via Searchlight Magazine and Unite Against Fascism. Antifa extremists are currently on trial in the US for carrying out unprovoked violent attacks on women and men whom they believe to hold right wing views. In the light of this, your labelling of us in those terms without having done genuine research into our views is a possible threat to our safety; your article effectively ‘marks’ us as persons of interest for sinister authoritarian left wing groups, such as Antifa and BAMN. We hope that your article was not written specifically with that cowardly goal in mind and that the errors and omissions were the result of shoddy research which you will be happy to amend, or remove from the internet entirely.

Given that many of your readers are likely to hold the opinion that women are not safe either in society or on the internet we are sure they will greatly appreciate you dealing promptly with this matter.

Yours Sincerely,

Elizabeth Hobson

Natoya Kadifa

Paula Wright

Catherine Kitsis

Belinda Brown

 

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My latest blog for The Backbencher

This is me writing on some of the latest violence and lies from the gender activists that will not attract any attention from the mainstream media:

http://thebackbencher.co.uk/violence-lies-and-hypocrisy-the-safe-space-crowd-are-making-trouble-for-us-all/

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I’m now blogging for thebackbencher.com

I am now writing for http://www.backbencher.com here’s my article about those pesky feminists who just can’t survive without policing what people say:

The Tangled web of Feminists, Free Speech, and the Internet

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